@duckhp @derek

So you should hate Richard Stallman then? He thinks that an ideal society is where every single software is libre.

Isn't that effectively "imposing his ethics and politics onto other people"?

In fact that is the exact response I recieve when I tell people about free software.

"Don'*t fprce your morality on others. Devs should be able to make money".

@thegeekfather @derek I agree, he got a great voice tbh xD

2/3

@derek

Second, I reject the notion that those who are out there trying to change the world are lazy, incompetent, or are somehow personally flawed simply for trying to do so. Two things can be true simultaneously: An individual can have room for growth as a person, and the world can be made better. You're not required to pick working on one or the other exclusively, you can work on both. I'm not sure we should condemn people for working on the latter.

3/4

@derek

Certainly I don't think it's appropriate to apply this logic to those who took part in the Arab Spring, or the students who protested in Hong Kong, or the people currently standing up to Putin.

4/4

@derek

I had never heard about the ethical software movement until I watched your video, so I don't know much about it, but from what I gathered my views probably align with yours on it. That being said, I don't think the argument that people's minds are inflexible and the characterization of people who try to change the world as flawed individuals is a particularly strong argument against the ethical software movement.

@derek

Hopefully this kind of thing is okay here. If not, please let me know and I will refrain in the future.

@av06 @derek @av06 @derek The difference is left-wing commies believe they're morally superior, therefore their views should be imposed on everyone else. And if you refuse you have to be canceled and isolated and fired from your job.

@flvc @av06 @derek
Saying "left-wing commies" are like this, is a Faulty Generalization: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization .
Also you can find stupid peoples in every movements, and using any number of examples to try to discredit a movement is nothing but Anecdotal fallacy: https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal.
Not that I'm trying to defend communism here, just that if your trying to argument something here, it's not very... well it was plain sophism.

@uso @av06 @derek Left-wing commies really are like that. Yes, you can find stupid people in every movement, but currently only the leftists dismiss people due to their political affiliation or views. We often hear these days people get fired because they are not in line with the company's "values of inclusiveness". If you are not going with the the left-wing narrative you are Nazi and fascist and you deserve to be canceled and isolated. The neoliberals are the Bolsheviks of 21 century.

@av06 @derek

"First, you absolutely can change other's minds through conversation and education."

That isn't what DT is saying though, as I understood the argument.

He's saying you "cannot force people to change their minds"

I read that not as 'it's impossible to change someone's mind' , but as 'it's wrong to attempt to change someone's mind through force' .

The force part is important there. You are talking about convincing people without force.

@kenny

That's a fair critique. But he also says stuff like

"people may have encouraged you to make those changes, but that really had no bearing on you making those fundamental changes"

"The people telling you to change had nothing to do with it."

So that's what I was responding to.

@av06 I Believe that what @derek meant is that you cannot force someone to fundamentally change something about themselves. It is something that they can be convinced or influenced but must, in the end, occur by their own will

@av06 @derek I agree with you in that I think the thumbnail text is poorly chosen, but I still agree with the idea that ethical source is a bad idea.

@brittlebrowse123

Another part I thought was a bit ironic was where he tells his listeners to call out Linux journalists and youtubers who promote "Ethical software."

@av06

Free software is dead because idiots like stallman, derek and luke smith are at the forefront of this "movement".

@brittlebrowse123 @av06

Maybe is dieing because of idiots like you?
Did you ever thought about that?

@senshi @brittlebrowse123

You think the Free Software movement might be dying because we thought DT's argument was somewhat inconsistent?

@av06 @brittlebrowse123 First of all i don't think it's dying.
That's not the point of my comment.

@syscrash @derek Does religion bother you that much?

@flvc @derek Religion doesn't bother me. Self-righteous, do as I say not as I do people with their self deprecating and fear mongering bother me. Not all religious people are like this, and so, they don't bother me.

@syscrash @derek The left-wingers are virtue signaling all the time. I don't see the difference.

@flvc @derek
I'm not a fan of "virtue signaling" either. Left wing, right wing, blah blah blah... Everybody is yelling and nobody is listening. It's a tale as old as time. It will be the end of us all.

@safiuddinkhan @derek

Exactly.
Look, if people want to make 'ethical software' , that's their choice, but they don't get to call it open source software.

It's either open or closed. It's not 'open when I like you, closed when I don't'

@kenny @derek indeed

@rob @derek [citication needed] lefties only tries to be and let others be themselves, right wingers are the ones who tries to change who we are to follow their ideals, are you gay? No marriage for you, trans? Not a real human being, for personal choice? Murderer...

@sotolf @derek This is certainly true for some people on the right. I guess making generalizations like this leads to assumptions that aren't always correct.