"Ethical" Software Threatens Free And Open Source Software

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@zykotick9 @derek

Not really. Free software wouldn't exist if Stallman completely gave up on "improving the world" and instead decided that he needs to "focus on himself".

So by using free software and getting angry at people who want to "change the world", your ideology is built upon hypocrisy.

How about this:

"Focus on yourself", give up on free software and only try to improve your life. Free software is a waste of time (by this "personal responsibility" logic).

@brittlebrowse123 You've completely missed the points in the video.

@derek even OSI's point #5 @

"5. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups"

If your idea of free or open source software includes "discrimination against persons or groups" you're missing the point of free and open source software - call it "ethical" call it whatever you want, Orwell downplayed the double-talk.

@derek History aught to have taught us that the most dangerous humans have been, and are, those who proclaim to be beholders of correct ethics and politics, and wanting to impose their ethics and politics onto other people.

@duckhp @derek

So you should hate Richard Stallman then? He thinks that an ideal society is where every single software is libre.

Isn't that effectively "imposing his ethics and politics onto other people"?

In fact that is the exact response I recieve when I tell people about free software.

"Don'*t fprce your morality on others. Devs should be able to make money".

@derek "Ethical software" movement is the attempt of Marxist tyrants to cancel and censor people they they don't agree with. It's the left-wing phenomenon that plagues the Western world.
@derek Commie software is a better term for it.

@derek I really enjoy these philosophical rants for when I want to hear something. It's like a mini podcast.

@derek Just like communism is a threat to a free society.



I think the argument here is fundamentally flawed, and there are two points I'd like to address.

First, you absolutely can change other's minds through conversation and education. I believe that, on a few occasions, I've had that effect on others, but moreover I know for a fact others have had that effect on me. In fact, you've had that effect on me.



Second, I reject the notion that those who are out there trying to change the world are lazy, incompetent, or are somehow personally flawed simply for trying to do so. Two things can be true simultaneously: An individual can have room for growth as a person, and the world can be made better. You're not required to pick working on one or the other exclusively, you can work on both. I'm not sure we should condemn people for working on the latter.



Certainly I don't think it's appropriate to apply this logic to those who took part in the Arab Spring, or the students who protested in Hong Kong, or the people currently standing up to Putin.



I had never heard about the ethical software movement until I watched your video, so I don't know much about it, but from what I gathered my views probably align with yours on it. That being said, I don't think the argument that people's minds are inflexible and the characterization of people who try to change the world as flawed individuals is a particularly strong argument against the ethical software movement.


Hopefully this kind of thing is okay here. If not, please let me know and I will refrain in the future.

@av06 @derek @av06 @derek The difference is left-wing commies believe they're morally superior, therefore their views should be imposed on everyone else. And if you refuse you have to be canceled and isolated and fired from your job.

@flvc @av06 @derek
Saying "left-wing commies" are like this, is a Faulty Generalization: .
Also you can find stupid peoples in every movements, and using any number of examples to try to discredit a movement is nothing but Anecdotal fallacy:
Not that I'm trying to defend communism here, just that if your trying to argument something here, it's not very... well it was plain sophism.

@uso @av06 @derek Left-wing commies really are like that. Yes, you can find stupid people in every movement, but currently only the leftists dismiss people due to their political affiliation or views. We often hear these days people get fired because they are not in line with the company's "values of inclusiveness". If you are not going with the the left-wing narrative you are Nazi and fascist and you deserve to be canceled and isolated. The neoliberals are the Bolsheviks of 21 century.

@av06 @derek

"First, you absolutely can change other's minds through conversation and education."

That isn't what DT is saying though, as I understood the argument.

He's saying you "cannot force people to change their minds"

I read that not as 'it's impossible to change someone's mind' , but as 'it's wrong to attempt to change someone's mind through force' .

The force part is important there. You are talking about convincing people without force.


That's a fair critique. But he also says stuff like

"people may have encouraged you to make those changes, but that really had no bearing on you making those fundamental changes"

"The people telling you to change had nothing to do with it."

So that's what I was responding to.

@av06 I Believe that what @derek meant is that you cannot force someone to fundamentally change something about themselves. It is something that they can be convinced or influenced but must, in the end, occur by their own will

@av06 @derek I agree with you in that I think the thumbnail text is poorly chosen, but I still agree with the idea that ethical source is a bad idea.

@derek The free software defintion could use an update though to include thoughts on spyware.

It is a common metaphor for lisp programmers to consider data and code as the same thing. Causing a person to give up data without asking, for reasons undisclosed, is like forcing a user into a joint agreement that generates proprietary code.


There is so much hypocrisy in this video that my irony meter exploded.

Why are you trying to promote free software? You should work on yourself instead of trying to improve the world with free software.

Why do you support Stallman/FSF? Stallman decided to change the world by moving to free software, instead of reducing his own weight. (∴ FSF = "Massive character flaw")

Ironically, the very free software you use ONLY EXISTS because stallman didn't follow this bullshit attitude.


Another part I thought was a bit ironic was where he tells his listeners to call out Linux journalists and youtubers who promote "Ethical software."


Free software is dead because idiots like stallman, derek and luke smith are at the forefront of this "movement".

@brittlebrowse123 @av06

Maybe is dieing because of idiots like you?
Did you ever thought about that?

@senshi @brittlebrowse123

You think the Free Software movement might be dying because we thought DT's argument was somewhat inconsistent?

@av06 @brittlebrowse123 First of all i don't think it's dying.
That's not the point of my comment.

@derek this makes me think of all the religious leaders I've see on TV...




@derek Despite whatever disagreements they had, the original liberal "freedom of use" position that the FSF and OSI shared is the only way you can have free/open source software. A variety of incompatible licences with arbitrary restrictions on use would be a hilarious disaster.

@derek I fully agree. The entire concept of open source software is that the knowledge is accessible to everyone and it is not restricted by any means and the concept of so called "ethical software" is contrary to the concept of open source software.

@safiuddinkhan @derek

Look, if people want to make 'ethical software' , that's their choice, but they don't get to call it open source software.

It's either open or closed. It's not 'open when I like you, closed when I don't'

@derek thanks. That video went in a totally unexpected direction and I loved it.

@derek You hit the nail on the head with this one, DT. Dennis Prager posted a video recently and I wish I could remember which one it was so I can link to it here. In the video, he compared the left and right ideologies and explained this very same thing. Leftists are normally the ones trying to change the behavior of everyone around them, while people on the right are more concerned with their own behavior.

@rob @derek [citication needed] lefties only tries to be and let others be themselves, right wingers are the ones who tries to change who we are to follow their ideals, are you gay? No marriage for you, trans? Not a real human being, for personal choice? Murderer...

@sotolf @derek This is certainly true for some people on the right. I guess making generalizations like this leads to assumptions that aren't always correct.

@rob @derek I at least mentioned points instead of just blaming the other side without giving a single example, name one thing the right does that let's people be themselves and don't hinders others freedom to the same that the left is against.. you said there are many so it should be easy..

@sotolf @derek Look friend, I'm simply sharing some thoughts about the opinions Derek shared in his recent video and comparing them to a Dennis Prager video. I mentioned I can't recall which video it was so I can't give a proper citation to the video in question. I invite you to go to the PragerU Youtube channel if you're interested. Otherwise, I'm not blaming one side over another side. I'm just sharing my own perspective. πŸ™‚

@rob @derek so let me get this clear you blame the left for wanting to change others more than the right, but can't give a single example ;) okay I'll just disregard all your opinions on that point as just pulled out of your ass then :) have a good night ;)

@sotolf @derek Sounds good. Have yourself an excellent day! πŸ‘Œ

@rob @derek haha, I'm going to sleep soon ;) it's getting late on this side of the planet :p

@rob @derek you too when time comes for it, apart from that have an excellent day :)

@sotolf @rob @derek

I bet, that if i were to search Twatter for shit like e.g "WE πŸ‘ have πŸ‘ to πŸ‘ do πŸ‘ better!"

I bet examples of leftists wanting to change other people, on all kinds of silly topics, would be flooding my screen 🀣

@duckhp @rob @derek is it changing other people in a way that make their lives worse though? Compare I think gays are icky do they shouldn't exist with people shouldn't force their fucking religion down my throat ;) taking someone's freedom to prosletise hurts nothing else than the priest's wallet.

@duckhp @rob @derek I have things in common with libertarians, they basically wants a similar goal as me, we only disagree how to reach that goal, the right is just restricting freedoms and short sighted selfishness basically, at least that's all I see of it, and I've seen few good arguments for it, libertarians at least have a good goal ;)

@sotolf @rob @derek

I'm a bit curious, so please don't mind me asking. Would you mind eleaborate a bit on who you're talking about in regards to when saying "Compare I think gays are icky do they shouldn't exist with people shouldn't force their fucking religion down my throat" ?

I'm just curious. (as a former, fairly 'fundamentalist' Christian)

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